30 July 2009
Ken Rogerson Explains the Role of Media in a Democratic Society
CO.NX webchat transcript, July 30
Duke University professor Ken Rogerson answered questions about the role of the media in a democratic society in a July 30 CO.NX webchat.
Please note that guests are chosen for their expertise and may not reflect the views of the U.S. Department of State.
Following is the transcript:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of International Information Programs
Webchat Transcript
CO.NX Chat: Media and Democracy Q & A
Guest: Kenneth Rogerson
Date: July 30, 2009
Time: 9 a.m. EDT (13:00 GMT)
Catherine Butsch: (7/30/2009 08:55) Welcome all!
Catherine Butsch: (08:55) The chat will begin shortly!
Catherine Butsch: (08:56) Please let us know who you are and where you are from !
Lalaina Apc M/car: (08:58) Lalaina, journalism student, Madagascar
Ken Rogerson: (09:00) Good morning everyone
Ken Rogerson: (09:00) I'm Ken Rogerson and I am a professor of public policy at Duke University in North Caroliina, USA
Ken Rogerson: (09:01) My area of research and teaching is politics and media/technology
Ken Rogerson: (09:01) I am happy to be with you today
Ken Rogerson: (09:01) Many of you have been asking questions over the past few days. I have had a chance to read over them and I'll begin by answering what I saw as some general themes in the questions
Ken Rogerson: (09:02) Then please ask more questions or ask about any clarifications you might want
Ken Rogerson: (09:02) Let's jump right in
Ken Rogerson: (09:03) One of the biggest themes in the questions that were submitted was asking about the definition of independent media
Ken Rogerson: (09:03) What are the independent media?
Ken Rogerson: (09:04) The first part of the answer has to do with history in a country or region
Ken Rogerson: (09:04) Think for a minute about your own country and situation: How would you define independent media?
Ken Rogerson: (09:05) For some it is simply media that is not owned by the government.
Ken Rogerson: (09:05) For others, the difference is that it is "opposition" media to those who are in power
Ken Rogerson: (09:05) Some of you have asked about the US
Ken Rogerson: (09:06) In the United States, independent media means those media who aren't influenced by any forms of power
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:07) Please submit your questions!
Ken Rogerson: (09:07) I would say that the development of an independent media changes with time in each country
Ken Rogerson: (09:07) Are there any questions about your specific situations?
Ken Rogerson: (09:09) Another observation about the independent media in the world is that there is a perception that all ind media are working for the same goal
Ken Rogerson: (09:09) This is not true.
Aaron: (09:09) I'm curious how you would characterize the state of independent media in the U.S.
Ken Rogerson: (09:10) Thanks Aaron
Ken Rogerson: (09:10) This is a very interesting question. Some would say that the US has the most "independent" media in the world
Ken Rogerson: (09:11) Others would argue that the US media are subject to corporate interests and are weak in their pursuit of truth
Ken Rogerson: (09:11) In one sense the US media is independent because it is NOT government owned, but there is another level
Ken Rogerson: (09:12) There are thousands of small publications whose audiences are ethnic, religious and ideological groups
Ken Rogerson: (09:12) These publications are much more independent because they are small and their audience is small. They also do not adhere to some of the generally accepted practices of mainstream journalism
Ken Rogerson: (09:13) This is another definition of ind media
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:14) If you are just now joining us, please tell us who you are and where you are from!
Lalaina Apc M/car: (09:14) In developing countries, this concept of indepedent media does not really exist!Can it be one of the reason why there're poor and in desorder?
Ken Rogerson: (09:14) Thanks Lalaina,
Ken Rogerson: (09:14) I think that the definition of ind media is developing countries is principally the one of opposition media
Ken Rogerson: (09:14) This is the most difficult one to sustain.
Ken Rogerson: (09:15) When governments actively work against the free flows of alternative sources of information, it is very difficult to get the information out
Ken Rogerson: (09:15) A quick story about eastern europe under communism
Miguel Duarte: (09:15) Hi! I'm Miguel Duarte and I'm a software engineer from Portugal
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:15) Nice to have you here, Miguel !
Ken Rogerson: (09:16) In the 1980s, the Pope visited Poland.
Aaron: (09:16) Also, I'm an American student, living in Berlin.
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:16) Hi, Aaron!
Ken Rogerson: (09:16) there were some videotapes of his visit that the government try to find and destroy
Ken Rogerson: (09:17) Some researchers found that those few videotapes were seen by tens of thousands of Poles through underground exchanges
Ken Rogerson: (09:17) One takeaway from this is that it doesn't take a lot of media to distribute the information. But this may be more difficult in other places.
Ken Rogerson: (09:18) Another question from a couple of you is what is a journalist's role in educating the population?
Ken Rogerson: (09:19) Again, some of this depends on the culture of the country, but I think that most places would agree that education is a principle role.
Ken Rogerson: (09:19) The one issue that comes up is whose education?
Ken Rogerson: (09:19) How does a journalist decide what to publish? what is the best approximation of the truth?
Ken Rogerson: (09:20) It may be difficult to find out everyone a journalist needs to know before distributing the information. There may be only one or two perspectives on an issue when, in reality, there are 10 points of view
Miguel Duarte: (09:21) Independence should mean freedom from affiliation, but, at least, the most important issue is to know what some media agency stands for. It’s not that they’re being manipulated, but usually they have their own opinions and tend to twist the facts in whatever direction they think it’s more correct. Some are more liberal, some are more conservative. But they all claim they’re neutral…
Ken Rogerson: (09:21) I have a friend who was a journalist in the Bosnian war of the early 1990s. He is a journalist with lots of experience and would ALWAYS maintain that a journalist should be fair in his/her reporting
Ken Rogerson: (09:21) But, he also said that every journalist should be working for peace. Does that mean he was biased?
Ken Rogerson: (09:21) At a point in my life I might have thought so, but now, I think he may have been right
Ken Rogerson: (09:22) Miguel makes a good point
Ken Rogerson: (09:22) Bias is often in the eye of the beholder, not necessarily in the person delivering the information
Ken Rogerson: (09:23) One thing that can be difficult in the US especially is to ascertain bias in media coverage when there are claims that there is no bias
Ken Rogerson: (09:24) In my classes and discussions, I often point to some of the media in other countries in which the left/right biases are clearly spelled out and citizens simply know to go to certain publications for differing points of view
Miguel Duarte: (09:25) Ken, but would a journalist working for peace do in the early stages of world war II?
Ken Rogerson: (09:25) This is a good point. I can't imagine being a journalist in Weimar Germany and trying to explain in a fair way what was happening
Ken Rogerson: (09:25) I'm not sure my friend had a strategy for this, but he certainly felt it strongly
Ken Rogerson: (09:26) Let's get a little broad again for a minute
Ken Rogerson: (09:26) I'm summarizing the questions you are submitting
Ken Rogerson: (09:26) Some of you are asking about how media have an impact on democracy
Ken Rogerson: (09:26) in general
Ken Rogerson: (09:27) Let me take the role of a prof for a minute and give you the textbook answer.
Ken Rogerson: (09:27) But there are certainly areas of discussion here
Ken Rogerson: (09:27) In theory, democracy means that the people have a voice in political decisions.
Ken Rogerson: (09:27) It is impossible for every citizen to take part in this process
Ken Rogerson: (09:28) In some cases, citizens elect representatives to make those decisions, but even that process can be tainted.
Ken Rogerson: (09:28) The media provide a bridge between citizens and government.
Ken Rogerson: (09:28) The media report on government activities and take the actions and desires of the people to the government, esp if it seems that the elected representatives are not listening
Ken Rogerson: (09:29) This leads to another of your questions: journalist safety
Ken Rogerson: (09:29) What if journalists are trying hard to report on government activities, but they are threatened by those in power?
Ken Rogerson: (09:30) There are really two parts to this question: time during war and not during war
Ken Rogerson: (09:31) During time of no wary: I must say that I am amazingly impressed with those journalists who keep going despite threats from those in power
Ken Rogerson: (09:32) There is a group called SEEMO (http://www.seemo.org/), who tracks this type of activity and supports it and rewards it.
Ken Rogerson: (09:32) in eastern/southeastern europe
william kasapo: (09:32) Some governments are too sensitive to criticism whether it is the truth or not being told and are always at war with the indepent media what can be done to harmonize the situation
Ken Rogerson: (09:33) Thanks William,
Ken Rogerson: (09:33) Yes, I agree with this. Often, this sensitivity comes from weakness. A fear that media coverage of ANY of their activities might result in some vulnerability.
Ken Rogerson: (09:34) Again, (and please understand that I am not avoiding the question here), the response really is on a case by case basis.
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:35) If you are just now joining us, welcome! Please tell us who you are and where you are from.
Ken Rogerson: (09:35) When the time comes that ind media unite or there is a groundswell of support from the citizens, these governments might be in a position to be challenged by the ind media
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:35) Once submitted, your questions will appear in red.
Ken Rogerson: (09:35) But, it is very clear the whoever controls either the military or the economic structures will have some power over those who don't
Ken Rogerson: (09:36) Edwin, has asked a good question about media control.
Ken Rogerson: (09:37) One thing we see is that sometimes the government in power co-opts/gains control of the media
Ken Rogerson: (09:37) In Africa we see this with radio, especially
Ken Rogerson: (09:38) During the terrible situation in Rwanda a decade ago, studies have shown that government control of the radio waves contributed strongly to the killings
EDWIN ZULU: (09:38) Thank you Ken we will try small case
EDWIN ZULU: (09:39) Yes and so many people died_maybe that is why the powers that be want privacy
Ken Rogerson: (09:39) Certainly, that is one issue that any government might want to suppress: one example would be Pinochet in Chile
Anthony PHIRI: (09:40) Why is it that most cases in Africa in for instance my country Zambia there is a tendancy of biase in a way in which the Public media disseminates imformation to the Public as oppose to Private Media,at the same time the Public Media is funded by the Taxpayers for it to function properly,is this fair?
Ken Rogerson: (09:40) Thanks Anthony,
EDWIN ZULU: (09:40) Ken i am enjoying your answers_hope you will invite me to USA
Ken Rogerson: (09:41) This is fascinating question. Yes, there is an issue for the citizens when their tax money goes toward public media and they do not feel they are represented
Ken Rogerson: (09:41) There is an old book that some of you may want to check out
Ken Rogerson: (09:43) It is called: Four theories of the press: the authoritarian, libertarian, social responsibility, and Soviet communist concepts of what the press should be and do" By Fred Siebert
Ken Rogerson: (09:43) It is an older book, but it does a great job explaining how the media work in a variety of types of societies
Ken Rogerson: (09:44) Imagine, Anthony, that you ask your question to those living under Communism inthe old Soviet Union. I think that some of them would be just as frustrated with how their money was being used
anwar 2: (09:44) hi am anwar from mauritius
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:44) Hi, Anwar!
mzyece esau: (09:45) why do you allow the media to get information if there can be killed
Ken Rogerson: (09:45) Hi, let me see if I understand correctly.
Ken Rogerson: (09:45) I think that most journalists don't do their jobs just because they are paid (many are not).
Ken Rogerson: (09:46) Most journalists do their jobs because they feel it is their mission/goal in life to get information to people
Ken Rogerson: (09:46) For some, they are happy to put themselves in danger for the greater good.
anwar 2: (09:46) we have an interesting press history,despite being an island of around 1.4 million people
Ken Rogerson: (09:47) I think this happens more in countries where the ind media is opposition media than in those where they are simple another voice.
Ken Rogerson: (09:47) So, many journalists are willing to get information that is dangerous if it will help their fellow citizens.
Aaron: (09:48) With this in mind, do you think that journalism can ever be objective? Is "objectivity" a noble goal or not? Is it obtainable?
Anthony PHIRI: (09:48) By the way what does the words Media and Democracy entail?
Ken Rogerson: (09:48) Hi Aaron,
Ken Rogerson: (09:48) Let me go back to this for a minute because I think it applies
Ken Rogerson: (09:49) Journalists can never really be objective in the dictionary definition of the word
Ken Rogerson: (09:49) they have their own goals (or the goals of their organizations)
Ken Rogerson: (09:49) But, sometimes being objective is not the goal.
Ken Rogerson: (09:49) consider the last question about looking for dangerous information
Ken Rogerson: (09:50) It is highly likely that this information is not objective at all, but simply provides a way to show that not all that has been said is the truth so far.
Ken Rogerson: (09:50) A journalist may never be able to objective, but they can work toward getting information out.
Ken Rogerson: (09:50) I would say the more important goals are to be fair and accurate.
Ken Rogerson: (09:51) Not necessarily objective
Ken Rogerson: (09:51) A few of you are asking about investigative journalism
Ken Rogerson: (09:52) I believe that every journalist in an ind media organization that is in an opposition role is acting like an investigative journalist
Ken Rogerson: (09:53) We have an odd way of looking at invest journalism in the US
Ken Rogerson: (09:53) It is different than in other places
anwar 2: (09:54) Sometime back our Prime Minister made an interesting comment that some people in our socalled independent press want as if to govern the country.He asked those editors to leave their editors room and file their candidature for elections.Hihihi
Ken Rogerson: (09:54) I would think that in most countries, investigative journalism's goal is more toward political change. In the US, it is often more toward social change
Ken Rogerson: (09:55) Some questions about privatizing media
anwar 2: (09:55) That part of investigative journalism is something very interesting in that it leads to more tranparency in the governing of the affairs of the country.Hence avoiding cases of corruption etc...
Ken Rogerson: (09:55) Yes, absolutely.
Ken Rogerson: (09:55) If the information can be disseminated
Ken Rogerson: (09:56) Once again, ind media don't have to do their work on a large, coutnry-wide scale to have an impact
Ken Rogerson: (09:56) Private media have their advantages
Ken Rogerson: (09:57) But, state-run media have greater access to resources
Ken Rogerson: (09:57) I would advocate the BBC model as much as possible
Ken Rogerson: (09:57) Get a law which provides some public funding, but that prevents the government from interfering
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:57) Hi everyone! Just to let you know, we will be wrapping up in a few minutes. Please submit your last few questions and comments.
Ken Rogerson: (09:57) I know this is a difficult call, but it is the best of both worlds
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (09:58) if you have more comments, please visit our facebook page at http://co-nx.state.gov
Ken Rogerson: (09:58) There was a question above about media and democracy.
Ken Rogerson: (09:59) I just want to point out that democracy means different things to different people
Ken Rogerson: (09:59) Iraq's democracy is different from Canada's which is different from Singapore's (yes, even though it can be argued, Singapore is a democracy)
Ken Rogerson: (10:00) so, the media systems in each democracy will necessarily be different.
Ken Rogerson: (10:00) For those you who are in places where ind (opposition) media mean a lot, think about ways to support any opposition voice
Ken Rogerson: (10:01) And look at fair and accurate coverage as the goal
anwar 2: (10:01) In my country there is the perception that the press which is mainly controlled by the Euro creole,do have an agenda(hidden)that is perceived to be against the interests of the ethnic majority of the population.Can we say that this is an independent media
Ken Rogerson: (10:02) A quick answer to this question.
Ken Rogerson: (10:02) There are different types of media, general interest/news and very specific niche media
Ken Rogerson: (10:02) ethnic media is niche media
Ken Rogerson: (10:03) They may cover news, but it will be biased toward their needs
Ken Rogerson: (10:03) But, they are still necessary.
Anthony PHIRI: (10:03) AS MUCH AS WE VALUE FAIR MEDIA AND DEMOCRACY, JOURNALIST ASWELL SHOULD BE FAIR
Ken Rogerson: (10:04) Their existence provides a point of view that some mainstream media will either not have time to cover or will choose not to cover
Ken Rogerson: (10:04) The important thing is for the consumer of news to learn which points of view come from where
Ken Rogerson: (10:04) Thank you all for your time
Ken Rogerson: (10:05) I'd be happy to answer more questions on the facebook page
Ken Rogerson: (10:05) Your questions and responses have been very thoughtful and incisive
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (10:06) Thank you all for participating!
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (10:06) Please visit our Facebook page at http://co-nx.state.gov
Miguel Duarte: (10:06) ok, bye
anwar 2: (10:06) Many thanks for the interesting Q nA session.Bye
Miguel Duarte: (10:06) where is your facebook page?
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (10:06) Hi Miguel. Just click on that link
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (10:07) or you can search CO.NX on facebook
Ken Rogerson: (10:07) bye all
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (10:08) If you have more comments, we encourage you to leave them on our Facebook page wall!
Catherine (CO.NX Moderator): (10:09) Also, please note that guests are chosen for their expertise and may not reflect the views of the U.S. Department of State.
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