06 August 2009
State’s Gregg Sullivan Discusses U.S.-Bangladesh Relations
CO.NX video webchat transcript, August 6
Gregg Sullivan, director of press and public diplomacy for the State Department’s Bureau of South and Central Asian Affairs, discussed U.S.-Bangladesh relations during an August 6 CO.NX video webchat.
Following is a transcript of the video program, which is located at https://statedept.connectsolutions.com/p92059017/.
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of International Information Programs
Webchat Transcript
CO.NX Program: Bangladesh and U.S. Relations
Guest: Gregg Sullivan
Date: August 6, 2009
Time: 9 a.m. EDT (13:00 GMT)
Gregg Sullivan: So it is a delight for me to be with you today. I want to thank everybody for joining us. I think I said by text I noticed all the young women at the Chowara girl's high school that have joined us. Thank you all.
Changemakers, I have seen that you're on as well. I know we've all done some good work together in the past, and we'll keep doing that. So anyway, thanks for joining us. And I think I'll just jump in here.
I did see one question that asked, what is the U.S. policy and what are the U.S. interests in Bangladesh.
That seems about as good an area to start as any. The U.S. interests in Bangladesh, I think I could reduce it down to one word, which is opportunity. We want to bring opportunity to the Bangladeshi people. Economic opportunity, educational opportunity, and the opportunity to realize the full potential of Bangladesh.
This is a nation of 150 or 160 million people. And it has been plagued by a number of problems, by poverty, by corruption, and we want to bring, we want to bring the types of reforms and type of developmental efforts that bring opportunity to the Bangladeshi people.
Our ambassador there, Ambassador Moriarty, has often called our focus the three Ds. Democracy, development, and I'm trying to remember the third D, which is essentially counterterrorism. But — depriving the terrorists an opportunity for action in Bangladesh.
And the Bangladeshis have much to be proud of in all of these areas. Bangladesh has come quite a long way in supporting its own democratic system.
The recent elections in Bangladesh, the Bangladeshi people can be very proud of. It was very high voter turnout. A high level of interest. The candidates conducted themselves very well. And the results appear good.
The vision 2021 that's been articulated, we commend a long-range focus and long-range planning that the Bangladeshi government seems to be embarking upon, and it is reinforcing the democratic tradition that has existed in Bangladesh. And we want to focus on supporting that democratic tradition.
In development, Bangladesh has come a long way as well.
We're trying to do our part. We have an assistance program that is more than $110 million in fiscal year 2008. That represents more than a 40 percent increase over what we [no audio] since 1971, the total of our assistance efforts in Bangladesh exceeds $5 billion.
So this is a long-term commitment that we have to the Bangladeshi people. It's not something that will change overnight; it is something that we'll continue to do. It is something we have been doing for the last 35-plus years. We're in it for the long haul as we say here in the United States.
We have focused our development, developmental efforts on family health care, democracy, basic education, energy, small, medium and microenterprise promotion, environmental efforts in biodiversity and food aid. And we're going to continue to do that.
In addition, that last D that the ambassador had spoken about, depriving the terrorists of a safe haven and freedom of action, the Bangladeshis have a lot to be proud of as well. Since just this past year, there were two ordinances that were passed that the Bangladeshis can be proud of: The anti-terrorism ordinance, the money laundering prevention ordinance, both of these efforts reinforced the ability to stop terrorist financing. And it is going to help Bangladesh join a number of international organizations that focus on this effort. So the Bangladeshis in that area have a lot to be proud of as well.
So I hope that gives some sense of what we're trying to do, in our engagement with Bangladesh, and ultimately, we expect it will bring opportunity to Bangladeshis to realize their full potential in democratic, in democracy, in economic development, and a free — and a society that's free, fair, and free from the specter of terrorism.
So let me take a look now too at some of the additional questions we're getting.
I see one question here from Tanbirul Islam of Changemakers, saying the American Center has been playing a vital role and is very supportive to extend mutual understanding between the U.S. and Bangladesh through different initiatives, including the involvement of state alumni. Do we have any plans to expand these activities further?
A great question and it is something that's very near and dear to my heart. As a director of press and public diplomacy, my primary interest is in building better connections between the United States and the Bangladeshi people. And also, providing opportunities for the Bangladeshi people to find a voice, to shape civil society, in the way that they wish, and again consistent with the President's own words, provide opportunity to the Bangladeshi people.
Some of the things that I really would like to do, and we are looking at this over the course of the next year, is increasing the amount of money and the amount of efforts we do in English language promotion. That's something that is very high priority for us. It works very well. It gives Bangladeshis and South Asians an opportunity to get information from a variety of sources.
It enhances the ability of Bangladeshis in the United States to engage in productive exchanges, and it is actually an economic incentive. It gives Bangladeshis an opportunity to improve their own economic standing by giving them a marketable skill. We're also interested in — reform and helping the Bangladeshi government's own efforts in this regard, in providing those thousands of Bangladeshi students in religious schools with a more standardized curriculum, and greater opportunity for employment after they complete their studies.
Something is that I want to do, is increase the availability of grants to the alumni of U.S. exchange programs. I'll be frank. We bring thousands of South Asians to the United States every year. I think it is a fantastic experience. Some for short visits through the International Visitors Leadership Program, some for longer visits like the YES program, FLEX programs that bring students for an entire year of academic study at a high school.
But one thing that I have always been disappointed in is that, there has been a lack of money and resources available after these exchange participants return to their countries. I want to increase the availability of grants, and we're looking right now at sponsoring a small grant program that the alumni of U.S. exchanges can apply to, to describe their projects and the efforts and how they hope to use their experience of international travel and their experience in the United States to launch a new effort to shape civil society, and essentially to provide the resources for the very impressive ideas that come from the people in the region.
You know, I can spend an enormous amount of time studying Bangladesh but no one will have better ideas about what is needed to advance Bangladeshi efforts to shape civil society better than you yourselves. So what I would like to do is, expand the grant program, create a specific one for South Asia, and to give those in the region an opportunity to compete for the resource of the United States and build upon the exchange programs that we have by starting a program that has a lasting effect on Bangladeshi society.
So ... let me take a quick look as well, some of the other questions that have been coming in.
I see a number of questions here that focus on trade and investment opportunities.
I see Sahid, Bangladesh has enough opportunities to offer U.S. investors. What should be the big challenge for U.S. investors to invest in Bangladesh? From another, I see Bangladesh have enough opportunities over U.S. investors. From another, Bangladesh has a good opportunity to attract U.S. industry and its I.T. industry. Would the U.S. Bangladesh relationship help to attract our I.T. industry and how?
We're certainly interested in promoting investment, trade and investment opportunities in Bangladesh. And through our U.S. assistance program, we are hoping to attract greater U.S. investment there. One of the major obstacles, and we recognize this and many of our Bangladeshi interlocutors in the government understand this as well, that one barrier to entry, one barrier, one deterrent to foreign investment is the level of corruption that does exist in Bangladesh.
This is something that we want to work with the Bangladeshi government to reduce and eventually to eliminate. For U.S. companies coming in, entering a foreign market, they like predictability in the economic exchanges, and then in their discussions with the government, corruption is a worldwide problem. It is particularly high in Bangladesh. And it is high on the agenda of U.S. firms interested in doing business in Bangladesh.
So we plan to work extensively with the Bangladeshi government to root out corruption. Some of the ideas that have been expressed have been the creation of an independent entity that serves as an ombudsman or a supervisor that has the power to investigate the corruption, allegations of corruption, that exist in the government. That is something that has worked well here in the United States.
And it is something that we'd love to assist the Bangladeshi government as we go forward with our discussions. Through our assistance programs, economic development, we also try to convey this message. That U.S. assistance is significant but the power of the private sector is even larger. And as basic reforms are made that create greater transparency in the Bangladeshi economy, more U.S. investment is likely to come. We also have the U.S. Department of Commerce also works to promote and facilitate U.S. involvement in the Bangladeshi economy. They'll be continuing their efforts as well.
So the U.S. is the number one investor in Bangladesh over the past ten years. But obviously there is more that we can do. And I think the — as I see in the questions, the focus on I.T., I think that's great. The future of the global economy is one that is one that focuses on services like information technology. So through our educational assistance efforts, and through our larger assistance program, we can help to create a work force in Bangladesh that's more equipped to meet the challenges of the 21st century.
Let's see what else. A number of folks asking, the number of Bangladeshi workers in the United States. Number of Bangladeshis in the United States. I will confess, the United States government doesn't keep data on the origins of citizens in the United States, but from our own research, we like to, here at the State Department, we do like to work with Bangladeshi Americans, members of the Bangladeshi legal permanent resident community in the United States.
So we do have a general sense of how many Bangladeshis are here in the United States. And the Bangladeshi American community is probably around a million strong here in the U.S., and they are focused in the New York and New Jersey area, here in the Washington, D.C. and northern Virginia area. And I would say that it has been a very successful community here in the United States.
The data we do keep through the U.S. census only gives us a broad insight, sort of the Asian community. And something that we do know about the South Asian community is they have one of the best records of assimilation and economic success here in the United States. So — and Bangladeshis are certainly a part of that. I am from the New York/New Jersey area myself, and growing up I knew a number of families that had come originally from Bangladesh.
The community has been very successful economically. They have started to reflect their political power as well, forming political groups here in the United States that advocate successfully on behalf of the U.S.-Bangladesh relationship, and on behalf of specific interests in Bangladesh. I think that may be one of the reasons as well that you have seen a 40 percent increase in the amount of assistance between 2007 and 2008. As the power of the Bangladeshi-American community grows in the United States, the power of the South Asian community grows more widely, I think that you're going to see more of a focus on increasing our assistance efforts and deepening our relationship with the Bangladeshi people.
One thing I do want to say in that context is, as someone who has been with the department almost 17, 18 years, I have seen a very distinct change in the last few years. Prior to 9/11, prior to 2001, the United States did not really address South Asia in a very consistent manner. And looking forward at how we handle the nations of South Asia, we're trying to be honest with ourselves, that prior to 2001, we really only had a very superficial relationship with the nations of South Asia.
And to our peril, you know, the attacks of 9/11 were a part of that. We're committed to ensuring that we don't make that mistake again. And so my Bureau, the Bureau of South and Central Asian Affairs is the fastest-growing Bureau here at the Department of State in terms of resources, personnel, and policy focus. It is clearly, South Asia is clearly an area of focus for this President, for President Barack Obama. And we feel attention growing steadily from the White House and others.
And so we're committed to deepening that relationship with the Bangladeshi people. Not just through political discussion or diplomatic exchanges but by increasing our economic assistance, and through what I do, which is trying to broaden the outreach and public diplomacy efforts in the exchange programs that we do run there. And again, going back to the original point that I made about the increase, the growing power of the South Asian community here in the U.S., and the Bangladeshi-American community specifically, as those communities grow in number and political influence, I think only good things are ahead for the U.S. and South Asia.
I'll go through some of the questions that we've received. Let's see what else I need to address here.
Here is a good question. How does the U.S. government imagine Bangladesh 20 years from now?
A very good question.
First, I should probably say, you know, it is really not for the U.S. government to articulate a vision. But it is very encouraging to us that the Bangladeshi government is articulating its own vision of “Bangladesh 2021.” That's exactly the type of planning and look forward that many developing nations should be engaging in. I for one am very encouraged about what we see in Bangladesh.
Bangladesh has worked to restore its democratic tradition following the caretaker government and the political crisis of 1998, and expanding that democratic tradition. That is going to serve Bangladesh very well looking forward 20 years from now.
There is also a very realistic look at the need for job creation, for food security, and Bangladesh is taking very good, very strong steps in that regard. And it is very encouraged as well by the Bangladeshi effort to counter extremism within its own borders. As I mentioned, the two ordinances that were passed earlier this year were very encouraged, but another step as well, the Bangladeshi government and the United States government recently embarked on a cooperative effort, a training effort with the Rapid Action Battalion, a primary elite counter-terrorism fighting force in Bangladesh, and embarked on this training effort to ensure that the counter-terrorism efforts that go forward are consistent with international standards of human rights. It is important as Bangladesh goes forward to strike that balance.
That's something that we here in the United States have been very conscious of. In the most recent election here in the U.S. that was a point that was consistently made that following 9/11, we needed to have a balance between our counter-terrorism efforts, and the image that we're projecting overseas. And Bangladesh will face that same challenge on a different scale.
The need to keep itself safe from terrorism and the influence of extremists, but at the same time ensuring that its standard of human rights, that its regard for its citizenry is consistent with international standards. And we're very pleased to be a part of that, that training effort with the Rapid Action Battalion and commend the Bangladeshi government for commencing the effort this year.
Well, looking forward, go back to the original question, looking forward over the next 20 years, I see a Bangladesh that is very realistically looking at its developmental challenges, hopefully taking steps to counter corruption, and taking steps along with the U.S. and the rest of the international community to create a skilled work force for the 21st century.
From the questions that I see coming in from the schools, I'm encouraged by the focus of information technology because that certainly is an area where job creation can be rapid. But I see a Bangladesh that takes on its challenges very realistically, that does so with the United States and the international community assisting which safeguards its democratic tradition and makes steady progress. So I'm encouraged by what I see. And I think that it is very exciting for young Bangladeshis as they go forward looking what the government and its society are going to be taking on over the next ten years.
Here is an interesting question from Harry.
How much of an impact will Indo-U.S. relations have an impact on Bangladeshi-U.S. relations, and vice versa, how much of an impact will Bangladeshi-U.S. ties have on Indian-U.S. ties?
Very good question.
And the United States is interested, as I said, this all goes back to the fact that before 9/11, we really did not pursue as deep a relationship with many countries in South Asia as we really should have. We're very interested in expanding and broadening those relationships with Bangladesh, with India with Pakistan, and all of the nations of the region. Some of the points that I want to underscore though are, the United States, we just recently conducted an informal review back here of our efforts, and something that one of the points that our Assistant Secretary Bob Blake made as we're looking through our efforts over the last four or five years was that, our region, the South and Central Asia region, does remain one of the least integrated regions of the world in terms of trade, of exchanges. And that's something that we, the United States, can really focus on, on helping along.
We want to promote good relations between India and Bangladesh, between India and Pakistan and really between all of the nations of the region. There is enormous potential in South Asia, in terms of its people, its power to generate enormous economic growth, and we want to help the people of South Asia reach that potential.
As we go forward with the stronger relationship with India, the Bangladeshi people shouldn't feel any concern there. In fact, it's something that is going to reinforce our efforts with Bangladesh and vice versa. As we deepen our relationships in either country, it is going to make other things incredibly possible. And one of the points that we'll be making is that the people of the region, the governments of the region, should be finding more areas for cooperation and coordination.
One issue I did want to mention was the Tipaimukh Dam. This is an issue that's come up between India and Bangladesh. And we're encouraged by the assertions of both the Bangladeshi side and the Indians, that they need to find a cooperative approach on this. And there has been concerned expressed about the construction of the dam, the impact on arable and agricultural lands downstream, and it is important that all of the stakeholders have a voice in this effort, and that the Bangladeshi and Indian governments are talking directly together.
The Bangladeshi government recently sent a delegation to examine the site of the dam, to engage in these discussions. Prime Minister Singh in India has noted his own commitment, not to adversely impact the Bangladeshi people. Those are very good points to make. And it is a good sign that as this issue amongst others in the India and Bangladeshi relationship, that both sides can go forward and in a cooperative effort. And we'll be here to reinforce that, to underscore the need again for all stakeholders to have a say in the construction of this dam and its implementation.
All right, I'll take a look at some other questions here.
Here is an interesting question from Mohammad Rashel. He says, thank you for giving me a chance to share experiences about the U.S. and Bangladeshi relationship. We know the U.S. is a very good friend, and I wanted to know, is there any change of view of Bangladesh to — by the new U.S. President Barack Obama.
It is a good question and gives me an opportunity to mention something else as I thought about what I wanted to say to our Bangladeshi friends in this web chat. Something that I wanted to mention was the profound reaction that we here in Washington saw to the President's remarks, his sort of address to the Islamic world at the University of Cairo in Egypt.
I was responsible for preparing a report to the President regarding the impact in South Asia. And I spoke to a number of our officers out there, from Ambassador Moriarty, to Harvey Sernovitz, and Amy Vrampas, who just departed there. And we were all struck by the amount of reaction in Bangladesh to the President's remark, the depth of understanding.
As I told the White House, nowhere in the world had I seen such a complexity of reaction, such a multitude of reaction to the President's speech. As I said, the Bangladeshi people seem to understand the President's outreach on a level, in all of its levels, and in a complexity that I saw unmatched anywhere in the South Asia region and stretching across the Islamic world.
What made a real impression on me was the reaction of many in Bangladesh that this was an opportunity for moderate Muslims to articulate their own vision of what is wanted in the Islamic world over the course of the next century, and to articulate its own vision of engagement and cooperation with the west. We conveyed that to the President. The President was very impressed. And I think that there is certainly an interest in the White House in building upon that. So as our mission goes forward with building upon that, I'll be here in Washington making sure that the White House sees everything that's taking place, and that we try to seize every opportunity to its fullest to write a new chapter in the relationship between the west and the Islamic world, beginning with Bangladesh.
So anyway, I thank you for that question, and thank you for the outpouring of support that the Bangladeshi people showed to the President in making his remarks. Let me take another scan through here. I see a question here.
How many people in the USA know about a country which is known as Bangladesh?
You know, it is unfortunate, the United States, the American people, one of our strong suits is unfortunately not been geography. It is probably something that we need to look at as we look forward in our own educational system. But you know, the United States is, Bangladesh I would say is one country where more and more Americans are learning more about Bangladesh. And it is precisely because of the growth of the Bangladeshi American community, its growing political influence.
You know, as a boy growing up in Jersey City, New Jersey, yes, I knew about Bangladesh because I knew Bangladeshi-American families, that owned stores in Jersey city, that we saw every day, that lived in the same neighborhood. So as a Bangladeshi-American community grows in number and strength here in the U.S., more and more Americans will know about and come to know Bangladesh. I would say, for the New York New Jersey area, the Washington, D.C., northern Virginia area, many young people do know about Bangladesh because they have Bangladeshi-American friends, and they are getting to know the country much more.
So — but yes, as you go deeper into the heartland of America, further west into the U.S., and as the Bangladeshi-American community grows into that part of the country, I think that more and more people will come to know Bangladesh, the impressive accomplishments of its people, and what the United States can do to work together with the Bangladeshi people.
And it is also important to note, that Bangladesh received quite a bit of notoriety for the wind — for Dr. Muhammad Yunus and his winning the Nobel Peace Prize, and his efforts. So certainly, Bangladesh is on the map in the United States. And more and more Americans are getting to know about Bangladesh.
So, going back to economics, I see a question here from Maxuda of the Chowara girls high school. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for the question.
She asks, what steps should be taken to get Bangladesh's developing country in the world a developed country in the world. Can you give us some comments on Bangladesh's financial condition, and give some suggestions to improve our financial condition?
Yes, certainly.
Bangladesh is taking on its economic challenges. We're trying to do what we can. I would think that the two things that would help Bangladesh most would be focusing on the issue of corruption, and promoting more transparency. Perhaps creating an entity that would assist in the investigation and prosecution of corruption charges. That we see this time and time again with foreign investors, for them, the most important thing in any country is predictability about their business dealings. Corruption raises unpredictability.
Knowing what the costs of doing business are is very important to people who are looking to invest overseas. So Bangladesh's corruption problem, addressing that problem of corruption, creating an independent authority to help with investigations and prosecution of charges, that would go a long way toward attracting foreign investment. I would think that the second thing that would help Bangladesh considerably would be ensuring, instituting wide-scale programs to ensure that the work force in Bangladesh is prepared for the challenges of the 21st century.
Early in my career, I had the opportunity to serve in an economic and development job in South Africa, and it was right after President Mandela had taken over there. And the thing that I took away from there was that at that point the South African government was looking at leaping over stages of development. In other words, processes that would take 40 and 50 years, they were jumping over the intermediate steps.
To give you an example, in telecommunications, the South Africans were rather than putting in land lines, they just decided to expand telecommunications, connectivity through the cell phone networks. This is what is available to the Bangladeshis. They can leap over stages of development, and by properly looking at preparing its work force, really enter into the service sectors of the international economy, like information technology, like financial services and insurance, customer service.
By properly preparing the work force and rooting out corruption, the Bangladeshis can really leap over the phases of development that other developing countries have had to take on and start to challenge many others in the world for the jobs and investment that's out there.
So — I see a question. U.S. helping in various sectors in Bangladesh. Would you please explain which sectors those are?
Certainly. We're involved in family health care. Our assistance efforts in Bangladesh focus on family health care, democracy promotion, basic education, promotion with small, medium microenterprises. Energy and promoting clean energies and renewable energy sources, environmental efforts and food aid. There's a lot of, there is quite a few rural developmental efforts that we take on. We're also there when Bangladesh faces a crisis. The recent, during recent flooding and as a result of environmental issues, the cyclones that periodically strike Bangladesh, we've moved over 10,000 metric tons of rice valued at over $6.6 million.
USAID has long been involved with creating an infrastructure that would prevent, that would reduce the severity of flooding and environmental disasters in Bangladesh. I recall a couple of years ago during Cyclone Sidr, there was a tremendous humanitarian impact, but it was severely lessened by the preparations that USAID together with the Bangladeshi government had put in place, and it lessened the severity of the flooding and lessened the long-term impact.
So that's where the United States wants to focus. We want to focus on, certainly on food aid, certainly on preventing major impact as a result of environmental catastrophes in Bangladesh. But also, through education efforts and health care, creating a work force that can compete in the 21st-century economy, compete in the service sector, and start to create more opportunity for its people.
I see a couple of questions here that are very specific in nature. I see one asking, can the U.S. Embassy assist with various economic issues or immigrant visa issues.
I don't have any specifics for you on those cases, but I'll promise you, we'll take a look at those and make sure folks at our embassy there see these so they can provide any assistance directly to you.
I see a question here from Safina. Do Bangladeshi citizens get the same benefit like other country's citizens in the United States?
Yes.
The United States has a long tradition of being a melting pot, and here in the United States, we have a strong tradition of ensuring that everyone who receives citizenship, and not just those who are citizens by birth but those who are naturalized, those who come from another nation and change their citizenship, like, for example, a Bangladeshi who might come to the United States, and qualify for U.S. citizenship after a certain period of residing here.
That person has the same rights as anyone born here in the United States. They have the same rights to vote, the same freedoms, and they also have the ability to go to the government if they feel that those rights are not being provided, and to file a suit that gets them the rights that they are entitled to. But yes, the United States does have a long tradition of ensuring that everyone, that there are no versions or gradations of citizenship. A U.S. citizen is a U.S. citizen. And again, the same for someone born in the United States as someone who immigrates. And that is something that we're very proud of, and it is something that it is why many still consider the United States a land of opportunity.
So, I see a question here from Rakib from Yusuf M.T. High School, Comilla, Bangladesh, what are the main goals of USA friendship with Bangladesh?
Well, going back to an earlier question, I feel that it is promoting opportunity, and again, as the ambassador has said on many an occasion, democracy, creating opportunity through democratic promotion, through development, and depriving extremists a base of operation in Bangladesh. That is the primary U.S. interest. But this President, President Barack Obama more than most understands the power of opportunity, and that is his buzz word. He wants to create opportunity for many, around the world including Bangladesh, to give others the opportunity to realize their full potential, as he's doing as President of the United States.
So, while we focus on democracy, development, depriving the extremists and terrorists of an opportunity, ultimately it is all for a greater good which is giving Bangladeshis an opportunity to realize their full potential, to get better jobs, to achieve greater educational accomplishments, to create a better work force, to achieve food security, and to go forward with a free and fair society that basically provides educational and economic opportunity to all of its citizenry.
That in a nutshell is what the U.S. interest in Bangladesh is.
I want to take an opportunity to mention the embassy's new Facebook page. It's a very good Facebook page, I encourage you all to become friends [fans] of it. And also, I want to mention too, we're back here, the Bureau of South Asian Affairs, I've been asked by our Assistant Secretary Bob Blake to look at creating one for us, and one that Bob Blake, our assistant secretary, can provide updates on our activities back here. And again, you know, reduce that distance between us and the people of the South Asian region. So, once we're up and running, we're on Facebook page, I'll be sure to mention to the embassy that that is created, and reach out to all of you who have been so wonderful in joining us this morning.
And, as I look at the clock, I think we're winding down. I want to thank all of you for joining us today. This was very good for me. And I encourage you to keep in touch with us again through the embassy's Facebook page. When we got ours up and running, you know, by all means reach out to us.
And again I thank you.
I hope to get out to Bangladesh myself sometime in the autumn, maybe meet some of you face to face. I may not recognize you without the cameras but hopefully you'll recognize me.
[Laughter]
So, anyway, thank you all for joining us this morning, and I look forward to meeting you all there when I visit later this year.
Thanks.
(end transcript)
