10 May 2007
Democracy Dialogue on Attacks on Bloggers and Cyber-Dissidents
USINFO Webchat transcript, May 10
Julien Pain, a journalist at Reporters Without Borders, participated in a May 10 USINFO Democracy Dialogue webchat on bloggers and cyber-dissidents. This is the second in a series of Democracy Dialogue webchats on press freedom.
Following is the transcript:
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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of International Information Programs
USINFO Webchat transcript
Guest: Julien Pain
Date: May 10, 2007
Time: 10:00 a.m. EDT (14:00 GMT)
Democracy Dialogues: Attacks on Bloggers and Cyber-Dissidents
Moderator: Welcome to today's webchat, the second Democracy Dialogue discussion on Press Freedom. We look forward to hearing from you today at 1400 GMT.
Question [Abraham_Lincoln]: I understand that cyber-censorship by a government is very active in some countries. Those governments are especially keen and oppressive against criticism directed toward the governments. But, I was wondering what would happen if bloggers and other cyber-commentators start advocating various “economic” opinions different from the government policies? I was thinking that even those keen governments might be lenient about diversified opinions if the subject is about economies and businesses especially when it is very professional such as monetary policies, securities regulations, priorities of industrial developments and so on. Hopefully, it can be a beginning of acceptance of the diversity of opinions including even critical ones against the governments. I would appreciate it very much if you would kindly provide your advice.
Answer [Julien Pain]: You're making a very important point here. We always talk about political censorship, which is more striking. But Internet censorship also applies to economical issues, and it has consequences in terms of business. Markets require information for investment and other decisions. And in countries such as China, how can you trust news media that are censored directly by the authorities? How can you get information about the level of corruption, about the problems faced by the Chinese economy?
I'll give you one example. A few weeks ago, the Chinese censored a small French web site operated by business analysts. Why? Because the analysts said that investing in China could be a risky business and alerted French companies on the problems entrepreneurs could face in this country. So you're right, Internet censorship should not only be a concern for Human rights activists, but also for anybody who's planning to do business in countries which censor the Net.
Q [April2]: Another thing that makes me dubious about blogging is the lack of credibility that some people have. There are people out there spouting a lot of facts and opinions and I have no way of knowing whether they really know whether they're informed about the topic, or have a particular axe to grind. How do you advise the casual blog-browser to beware of this?
A [Julien Pain]: It’s too soon to really know what to think of blogs. We’ve been reading newspapers, watching TV and listening to the radio for decades now and we’ve learned how to immediately tell what’s news and what’s comment, to distinguish a tabloid “human interest” magazine from a serious one and an entertainment programme from a documentary.
We don’t have such antennae to figure out blogs. These “online diaries” are even more varied than the mainstream media and it’s hard to know which of them is a news site, which a personal forum or one that does serious investigation or one that’s presenting junk evidence. It’s difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some bloggers will gradually develop their own ethical standards, to become more credible and win public confidence. And people will only trust blogs they often read. Blogs they came to know and trust. As you don't give your trust to someone (or a newspaper) you just met. Internet users should not believe that what's being publish on the Net is automatically true. But I do believe that most Internet users already are cautious and well aware that the Web also carries a lot of junk material.
Q [rarasoa]: Hi Julien, the subject is timely, yet countries like mine are not still fully aware of its actual scope. Nonetheless, the threats are real on traditional journalists vis-a-vis the sprawling bloggers worldwide as well as on bloggers facing government's breakdown. How do you reconcile the job of journalist and the blog business? Can you tell of the difference of pattern regarding the language of communication between journalism and blogging?
A [Julien Pain]: I don't think we should oppose bloggers and journalists. In certain countries, bloggers are actually more independent and circulate a less censored information than professional journalists. So who's the real journalist then? The one who has a press card, or the blogger who have another job but takes risks by publishing information which are not covered by mainstream media? I don't think you have to reconcile them. But I don't think either that bloggers will take the jobs of professional journalists. Bloggers can produce first hand information, or quality analysis and comment. But when it is to carry out an investigation, you need time and money. And that's why we'll still need a NY Times.
Moderator: Read about new Media Emerging in the U.S. State Department’s eJournalUSA online publications series.
Q [galataia]: First of all, sorry about my English (my native language is Spanish). Secondly, I want to make you a question. Nowadays there are some newspapers on line that include blogs from users on their sites. Even editors motivate their journalist to create blogs in order to make “new journalism”. Do you think that’s the way journalism has to grow in the Internet? Or should it be more free, away from the traditional media?
A [Julien Pain]: (Don't worry about the English. I'm French, and my English is far from perfect). It was inevitable that traditional media would try to catch the "blogging train". But I don't think they'll manage to drive the development of citizen journalism. People have seized this new tool, and they're not going to leave it to big media. Blogs may disappear in the future. It's only a form taken by User generated content at a certain time in the history of the Internet. But the need to speak out, whether you live in a repressive country, or in a democracy, will remain.
Q [rarasoa]: Can we consider the information we get from the blog as proper to make a good headline?
A [Julien Pain]: Do you mean that journalists tend to use what bloggers say to make their headline but that they don't check enough the accuracy of the information?
Q [Leipzig]: How does the State Department reach out via Internet to countries, e.g., China and Cuba that restrict public Internet access within their countries? Thank you very much!
A [Julien Pain]: I can't speak on behalf of the State Department... I work for Reporters Without Borders...
Moderator: A Department of State fact sheet on ways the United States supports press freedom worldwide is available online.
Q [Abraham_Lincoln]: Thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. Your answer is bad news and good news for me. It is bad news because you advised that some governments are eager to censor even economic and business opinions. But, it is good news because, in this case, there would be a chance that broad business communities would join human rights activists in their demanding removal of Internet censorship since Internet censorship should be a concern for anybody who's planning to do business. Is there any such tendency already among business communities? I would appreciate your advice.
A [Julien Pain]: I don't think the business community has realized how important it is for them to support free speech. Most companies believe that pleasing the Chinese government is what counts. They're ready to make unacceptable ethical compromises to get this market. We all have in mind the Yahoo! or Google examples. I've asked the U.S. State Department to request that the OECD (an international economic organization) carries out a survey on the consequences of Internet censorship in terms of business. I think such a study would raise attention of the business community and help them to adopt a long term perspective.
Q [rarasoa]: I mean some information we get from bloggers, not all can be a good starting for a real scoop in the newspaper. In other words blog can be a source of information among others for journalists.
A [Julien Pain]: It already is an important source of information for journalists. I can give you plenty of examples of scandals that were unveiled by bloggers and then taken by journalists. In Egypt, bloggers were the first to prove acts of tortures committed by the security forces. I can tell you (since I'm a journalist) that all media now monitor what's being reported on blog. It can even be a problem, because they tend to rely on the Internet instead of sending people on the ground to investigate.
Moderator: Today’s webchat is the second of several Democracy Dialogues webchats devoted to the topic of press freedom.
Our next webchat in this series takes place Thursday, May 29 at 1400 GMT. Join Professor Sherry Ricchiardi for a discussion on Threats to Journalists and Media Professionals.
Learn more about Democracy Dialogues at: http://www.democracy.gov/dd/eng_democracy_dialogues/free_press.html.
Q [Abraham_Lincoln]: Thank you for your comments and expertise. I would say it is quite sensible and sound that you asked the U.S. State Department to request the OECD’s survey on the consequences of Internet censorship in terms of business. This will be a very important step forward.
Julien Pain: Thanks "Abraham". It's been nice chatting with you all. - Julien
Moderator: We wish to thank Julien Pain for joining us today. The Webchat is now closed. Please visit our USINFO Webchat Station homepage for more information on upcoming events and a transcript of today’s discussion (posted within one business day).
(Guests are chosen for their expertise. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. Department of State.)
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(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
