26 July 2007
Democracy Dialogue on Criticism of Nongovernmental Organizations
USINFO Webchat transcript, July 26
Thomas Carothers, the vice president for studies, international politics and governance at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, participated in a July 26 USINFO Democracy Dialogue on the backlash against nongovernmental organizations (NGOs).
Following is the transcript of the Webchat:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
BUREAU OF INTERNATIONAL INFORMATION PROGRAMS
USINFO Webchat Transcript
Democracy Dialogues: The Backlash Against NGOs
Guest: Thomas Carothers
Date: July 26, 2007
Time: 10:00 a.m. EDT (1400 GMT)
Moderator: Welcome to our global participants! We will begin momentarily. You are welcome to send in your questions now. Your questions will not appear on this screen until they are answered by our speaker.
Thomas Carothers: In discussing the backlash against NGOs, it is important to distinguish between two different phenomena. First, in recent years some governments (such as those in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ethiopia, Egypt, and elsewhere) have taken steps to block or limit the activities of Western NGOs working in their countries, accusing them of being agents of U.S. or Western political subversion. These efforts have been directed both against government funded NGOs, such as the U.S. party institutes and Freedom House, and entirely privately-funded organizations such as the Soros foundations. These pushback efforts have sometimes included attempts to reduce Western financial support for local NGOs through restrictive NGO laws. This backlash was greatly fueled by the color revolutions, which made some government fear that Western NGOs could organize large-scale civic protests.
A second, different kind of backlash against NGOs is criticism of and pressure against local NGOs by their governments, focused on the charge that such organizations are not responsible actors, are too anti-government, and are not properly accountable to citizens. These sorts of criticisms and pressures are exercised against all sorts of NGOs, not just those working on democracy issues but on other issues such as environmental advocacy. This latter kind of backlash sometimes has an anti-Western edge with local NGOs being accused of being under the control of Western funders, but it grows out of a more general reaction to the rise of NGOs during the 1990s and governments’ discomfort with sharing power with civil society.
Both types of backlash are significant, and both can be harmful to democracy, but they are somewhat distinct.
Question [Sudha Mohan]: Do you believe that NGOs truly threaten Democracy? If yes, Please provide relevant examples of this.
Answer [Thomas Carothers]: The normal types of NGOs—advocacy organizations, service delivery groups, cultural organizations and others—generally contribute to democracy, not threaten it. They do so by pushing for greater accountability and increasing citizen participation. Governments that feel threatened by NGOs are usually non-democratic governments.
Q [Badrus Sholeh]: In Indonesia, some state officers criticize the importance of accountability of NGOs. Are there any guarantees that reports(s) to NGOs funding are parts of the accountability? Can government interfere the structure and activities of NGOs?
A: Accountability can be a significant issue. NGOs should on the one hand be accountable to their funders, whether external or internal, and at the same time they should in some broader sense be accountable to the public through transparency and reasonable legal regulations.
Q [kelvin glen]: I have to agree, often the governments resist NGO's as they see them as a threat and replacing the government services. This should not be the case NGO's are here to support government ion it actions and service delivery. Kelvin Glen - South Africa.
A: It is normal in established democracies for governments to regulate NGOs at least in terms of basic requirements for legal registration, accounting methods, and other basic operational features. Such regulations however normally leave considerable space and flexibility for NGOs to choose their own work programs, strategies, and goals.
Moderator: Welcome to those of you just joining us. We see your questions coming in. Questions will appear on this screen only after they are answered by our speaker.
Q [Chat Participant]: What advice do you have for an NGO threatened with indirect measures such as "tax violations" or other excuses governments use to shut down NGOs? Is there any international body NGOs can rely on for help in such cases?
A: Unfortunately there is not an international legal body with clear responsibility for this area. In some cases local NGOs threatened by governments can try to appeal to regional organizations, like the OSCE or OAS, that have articulated standards for democracy, arguing that the actions against NGOs violate those standards. Or they can try to mobilize a reaction by appealing through the media or through international NGOs with a common interest in their work. The International Center for Non-Profit Law does useful work in articulating standards for NGO treatment.
Moderator: Participants may be interested in our upcoming webchat with Stephan Klingelhofer, vice president of the International Center for Not-For-Profit Law. Mr. Klingelhofer joins us to discuss “NGOs and Policy Advocacy” on August 15.
More information can be found at: http://usinfo.state.gov/usinfo/USINFO/Products/Webchats/klingelhofer_15_aug_2007.html.
Q [Marek]: Dear sir, Often there may be a perception of NGOs as an import, or foreign entity working in a particular country. In your experience, is this true or are NGOs more typically made up of local residents and activists?
Could the backlash against NGO groups be avoided if fewer foreigners staffed NGOs at the working level and projected a more familiar "face"?
A: It's hard to generalize -- some international NGOs do rely heavily on expatriate staff, especially for office director positions. Others have moved more in the direction of all local staff in their country offices. The trend is toward greater localism, which is helpful to deflect charges of being a "foreign interloper" in another country. Even with local staff however, a suspicious government that doesn't like foreign NGOs, will find reasons to pushback.
Q [Akhmed Tillayev - Tashkent,Uzbekistan]: Mr. Thomas, thanks for your time.
First of all, I want to clarify an important thing in the background of the topic. I think is sentence like “in some countries around the world governments are starting to view NGOs as a threat to their power”, you mean INTERNATIONAL NGOs, (basically provided by the U.S.) not local ones. As far as I know, some countries at least Central Asian do support their local NGOs’ activities.
There is a real backlash against INTERNATIONAL NGOs (not local ones) in former Soviet Union countries. The main reason for it I think that these governments consider international NGOs (basically provided by the U.S.) as supporters and providers of anti-governmental rebels which were aimed against constitutional regimes of their states. It was broadcasted almost in all Euro-Asian countries’ channels how people, who were taking part in rebels against their government’s constitutional régimes, were supported by international NGOs like [Peace Corps], IREX, Freedom House, Source foundation. Basically all of those activities were in Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, and Kyrgyzstan. In Ukraine, it was broadcasted how those very NGOs were distributing food, warm clothes, sometimes even drinks, for those rebellions, even though they were against their constitutional regime. At first, the number of rebellions was not more than 500 hundred peoples. But after getting free food and free clothes from those NGOs, the number of rebellions increased rapidly. And the REASON for it was NOT their own democratic views or disappointments have changed, they just wanted to get some food and clothes, plus the majority among them was confirmed drunkards and hobos. Of course it will work out that way, because some of them are undeveloped countries, where the people are making less that $1 per day. Therefore I think in some cases they are just buying people, and then broadcasting in their local channels how they are helping the people, or trying to help to establish democratic state.
What is your own opinion about it? Does it really happen? Or is it just informational attack?
Many thanks in advance, Akhmed Tillayev, 19.
A: First of all it is important to note that these civic protests are not best characterized as rebellions -- they were citizens protesting stolen elections, which is something different. These protests were support and sometimes organized by local NGOs committed to working for free and fair elections. And some of those local NGOs did receive financial support for their work from the U.S. and Europe. But the outside organizations were not supporting the demonstrations in such a direct way as was reported in the government media of these countries.
Q [marcelo viruez]: Buenos días, puedo efectuar mis preguntas en español?
Q [Chat Participant]: What is the current status of NGO community in Russia? As I understand, there is a country wide crackdown and also new legislation that seeks to make life very difficult for Russian and non-Russian NGOs to work in Russia?
A: Russia does have many NGOs, hundreds and in fact thousands, if one counts very small organizations. They are working on a wide range of issues, from health and education to human rights and the environment. Some (a minority, usually the larger ones) are supported by Western foundations and aid programs. Many are supported by Russian business funds, government funds, or individual contributions. The Putin administration has placed greater restrictions on NGOs, creating a fairly tough legal regime in which NGOs have extensive registration and reporting requirements. This has made life harder for Russian NGOs but not eliminated them. Some NGOs, such as human rights groups or groups working on Chechnya, have faced persecution and harassment.
Moderator: Marcelo, si es posible preferimos que nos haga sus preguntas en inglés, pero si no es posible las traduciremos.
Today’s webchat is the second of several Democracy Dialogues webchats devoted to the topic of Nongovernmental Organizations.
Our next webchat in this series takes place Tuesday, August 7 at 1400 GMT. Join Outi Flynn of BoardSource for a discussion on Principles of Effective NGO Governance.
Learn more about Democracy Dialogues at: http://www.democracy.gov/.
Q [AshDailyStar]: NGOs have been known to play significant political roles -- both directly and indirectly -- in different countries. Do you feel that NGOs should be apolitical, if so, why? If they should be apolitical, how do you view the role of NGOs in politics, especially in non-democratic regimes?
A: I do not believe that NGOs, as a general category, should necessarily be apolitical. In established democracies, NGOs are deeply involved in many political issues and operate in a political and sometimes partisan manner, from lobbying for bills to supporting particular candidates who favor policy positions they agree with. If an NGO is working on certain issues, such as anti-corruption or parliamentary transparency, their work will be more effective if it is non-partisan. But it would be too limiting to say that as a rule NGOs should be non-political or non-partisan.
Marcelo, Hablo espanol -- puede darnos su pregunta en espanol si quiere. Thomas Carothers
Moderator: Regarding the earlier questions about governments' use of "tax violations" and other excuses to restrict or shut down NGOs, participants may be interested in reading Toward an Enabling Legal Environment for Civil Society.
Welcome to those of you just joining us! We are still open to your questions.
"Marcelo", "Ash", thank you, we have your questions. Mr. Carothers is reviewing them now.
Q [AshDailyStar]: The Bangladesh caretaker government recently announced that all NGOs, including human rights organizations, will have to participate in 'visible development projects' such as lending micro-credit or building roads, etc. What are your thoughts on the decision? What does this indicate about the future of the NGO movement here and elsewhere?
A: This sounds like a dangerous idea to me. I don't think NGOs should be forced to conform to a certain category of activities. NGOs have been so active in development work in South Asia that some people associate them mainly with that and therefore think development work is their "normal" job, but that's a mistaken conception. It sounds like a clever tactic by the government to reduce political space.
Q [marcelo viruez]: Cúal cree usted que es el papel de los ONG´s en America Latina en general y en Bolivia en Particular, al apoyo económico y en capacitación de movimientos indigenas para establecer autonomías indigenas con implicaciones de autogobierno o de dominio sobre su tierra y territorio?
A: Creo que en general los ONGs en America Latina han cumplido muchas tareas y funciones utiles en los ultimos decades de derechos humanos hasta educacion para ninos. Se que el rol de los ONGs en paises con poblaciones importantes indigenas ha sido contravertido pero es importante incluir estas poblaciones en las sociedad y la politica y los ONGs han ayudado con esta.
Marcelo, Puede leer repuestas en ingles (Marcelo, can you read answers in English?)
Q [marcelo viruez]: He desarrollado trabajos en una ONG en bolivia para el reconocimento de derechos humanos en la Nueva Constitución Política del Estado que actualmente se viene "redactando o elaborando en la Asamblea Constituyente de nuestro país, lastimosamente la inestabilidad de ese magno evento resulta en que la opinión pública esta desarrollando cierto temor en relación a cambios muy profundos en nuestro sistema jurídico, lo cual podría derivar en un rechazo de las conclusiones de esta asamblea, cual cree usted que sería el comportamiento de las ONG´s frente a este eventual escenario de fracaso de la Asamblea Constituyente en Bolivia? o ¿Cúal cree usted que sería en rol de las ONG´s que trabajan en el campo del cambio del sistema jurídico (leyes, políticas públicas, etc) en los paises latinoamericanos en general y de Bolivia en Particular?
A: En la situación compleja de la Asamblea Constituyente de Bolivia será crucial que las ONG’s que trabajan con respecto al estado de derecho, permanezcan fieles a sus principios y que reaccionen con calma, pero energéticamente si hay algún intento para limitar los derechos a través de la Asamblea o interrumpir la Asamblea a través de otros medios. El país está en momentos tensos y las ONG tienen que mostrar que están trabajando por principios más trascendentes y no solamente por la ventaja de un solo grupo.
[In the complex situation in Bolivia with the Constituent Assembly it will be crucial that NGOs working on rule of law and rights stay true to their principles and react calmly but forcefully to any attempt either to limit rights through the Assembly, or to disrupt the Assembly through other means. The country is at a tense point and NGOs have to show that they are working for larger principles and not just the advantage of one group or the other.]
Moderator: We have just a few minutes left for your final questions.
Mr. Carothers is the author of two recent publications of possible interest to our participants:
• The Democracy Crusade Myth," appeared in The National Interest, July/August 2007.
• "The Debate on Sequencing," appeared in Journal of Democracy," July 2007.
Q [marcelo viruez]: Si, puedo leer las respuestas en Inglés, pero mi redacción es un poco incipiente, y ya que este es un evento de significación global es que prefiero no cometer errores de sintaxis u ortografía por lo que efectue mis preguntas en español. Muchas gracias por su preocupación y por la claridad de sus respuestas. Marcelo Viruez, La Paz-Bolivia
A: De nada. La comunidad de las NGO del mundo está vigilando la situación en Bolivia, así que estos asuntos de principios son muy importantes ahí. Mucha suerte en su trabajo.
[You're welcome. The situation in Bolivia is being watched by many people in the NGO community around the world and so these issues of principle and partisanship are extremely important there. Good luck with your work.]
I thank everyone for the excellent questions. It is good to have searching discussions about the role of NGOs and normal for governments and others to ask hard questions about what they do and what their role should be. It is worrisome however to see NGOs being used as political scapegoats or for the whole concept of NGOs to be mythicized and presented to citizens as something sinister and dangerous.
Q [marcelo viruez]: Muchas gracias por haberme dado la oportunidad de participar en este exitoso espacio de dialogo y felicito a sus patrocinadores por esta iniciativa, que permite a ciudadanos del mundo entero poder comunicarnos con expertos de talla mundial para reflexionar y dialogar democraticamente sobre tópicos de interes mundial, latinoamericano y local, atentamente Marcelo Viruez, Especialista en Derechos Humanos y Docente Universitario La Paz, Bolivia.
Moderator: We wish to thank Thomas Carothers for joining us today. The webchat is now closed. Please visit our USINFO Webchat Station homepage for more information on upcoming events and a transcript of today’s discussion (posted within one business day).
(Guests are chosen for their expertise. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. Department of State.)
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(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
