18 July 2007
Democracy Dialogue on the Role of Nongovernmental Groups in Society
USINFO Webchat transcript, July 18
Lester Salamon, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Civil Society Studies, answered questions in a July 18 Democracy Dialogue webchat on the roles nongovernmental organizations play in a civil society.
Following is the transcript:
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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of International Information Programs
USINFO Webchat Transcript
Democracy Dialogues: The Enabling Environment for NGOs
Guest: Lester Salamon
Date: July 18, 2007
Time: 10:00 a.m. EDT (1400 GMT)
Moderator: Welcome participants! We'll be getting started shortly. We kindly ask that you send in one question per submission.
Lester Salamon: Although civil society organizations are fundamentally private institutions, their effective functioning depends heavily on the availability of a supportive legal environment, which involves government.
To be effective and supportive, the legal environment for civil society organizations must strike a reasonable balance between features that encourage the formation and operation of these organizations (“supply” features) and features that give the public the confidence to rely on these organizations (“demand” features).
The first set of features include protections for the right to associate and for the ability of civil society organizations to acquire “legal person” status. The second set of features include prohibitions on the distribution of profits to organization directors and requirements for transparency and fiscal accountability.
Question [Sudha Mohan]: NGOs in America: Are they strengthening or surpassing Democratic Politics? If the answer is the former, what forms of interface between government and NGOs are taking place and how effective are they? If your answer is latter ('surpassing'). Are they 'depoliticizing’ the political realm?
Answer [Lester Salamon]: I would say there is some of both--strengthening and displacing--though I think the strengthening aspects are the major ones. NGOs in America give a wide assortment of citizens access to government policy. This includes the elderly, groups representing children, civil rights organizations, and many more. At the same time, business and professional groups are also active participants and their financial power gives them significant advantages. So long as we have an open press and media, however, the voices of the less advantaged have an opportunity to be heard, and NGOs play an important role in mobilizing and giving voice to these people.
Q [Jaona]: Hello, these questions are from Hefler a philosophy student in Antananarivo University. How could we define the role of NGOs and government because they have the same objectives and goals that are to improve people’s well being?
A: Where is Antananarivo University?
Yes, NGOs and government share a common concern with people's well-being. But they also have distinctive competencies. This means that they can be natural partners. Government is most effective in setting broad societal directions and raising financial resources to pursue those directions, but it is often cumbersome and unresponsive in the delivery of services, especially human services. Nonprofits have just the opposite strengths and weaknesses: they cannot establish "rights" to assistance and have great difficulty generating resources. But they are often much more effective at delivering services at a human scale, with more flexibility and often more creativity. This is why I have written a book called "Partners in Public Service," which argues for greater cooperation between government and civil society.
Q [nosseir]: [Do financial considerations] put restrictions on NGOs to satisfy [their role in a] democracy sir?
A: Of course financial considerations affect the ability of NGOs to perform their roles. In many developed countries, however, NGOs have developed multiple sources of financial support -- government, fees and charges for their services, and philanthropy from multiple sources. The presence of multiple sources of support is probably the best guarantee of NGOs' ability to perform their role in a democracy.
Q [Festus]: Do you think the civil society independence may be questionable? Some people say if governments should be accountable civil society to who will be accountable the civil society in return?
A: I think civil society has an obligation to be accountable to the public. This can be achieved on a voluntary basis or through formal regulations for transparency and reporting. At the same time, the reporting requirements should not be unduly intrusive or burdensome. The key is to strike a reasonable balance between giving civil society the freedom to operate and requiring it to abide by certain requirements for openness.
Q [quebec city]: Good morning. In your opening comment, you mention the importance of maintaining public confidence in the integrity of civil society organizations. I wonder if you might be able to comment on the relationship between civil society organizations and government agencies? For example, increasingly, many western governments fund and depend on civil society organizations to advance their objectives overseas. How, in your opinion, should the balance be struck?
Also, I will be teaching a course on transnational diplomacy this fall, and I am wondering if you have any books, articles, or authors to recommend whom you feel are particularly insightful on the issue of the relationship between civil society organizations and government. Thank you.
Q [Festus]: What do you think about some governments policies imposing to NGO’s to work under the same forum (called in some areas "joint action forum"). Is it necessary for NGO’s to share programs and objectives?
A: I would not favor formal requirements for joint action. However, governments might reasonably offer incentives for joint action in their grant and contract programs with NGOs.
Moderator: Welcome to those of you just joining the webchat! Dear "Gala" thank you for your question, we see it and it is under review from our guest speaker. There is no need to send in your question multiple times.
Thank you!
Q [marcelo viruez]: Pueda expresar mis preguntas en Español o solo en Inglés?
A [Lester Salamon]: In response to the comment from Quebec City, I think there is a natural synergy between government and civil society, certainly in the domestic sphere, and often internationally as well. At the same time, I think it is important that civil society be able to retain a meaningful degree of independence. This is achieved in part by having independent governance structures and having a mix of funding sources.
So far as reading materials are concerned, on the general topic of government-nonprofit relations I would be tempted to cite my book, PARTNERS IN PUBLIC SERVICE: Government-Nonprofit Relations in the Modern Welfare State published by Johns Hopkins University Press and a recent book by Ego Ascoli on government-nonprofit relations in Europe. On the relationship between government and civil society in international activities, I'd recommend a book by Brian Smith entitled MORE THAN ALTRUISM published by Princeton University Press.
Moderator: Marcelo, si es posible, preferimos que nos haga sus preguntas en español, pero si no es posible las traduciremos.
Q [Festus]: Is it always good to have strong civil society? Is this always sign or guaranty of stability especially in week or young democracies? Thanks.
A: In general I think it is always good to have a strong civil society. To be sure, this is not always a guaranty of stability. But civil society leaders need to understand that an effective and vibrant civil society requires a strong and effective state, just as it is important for government officials to understand that a strong and effective democratic state requires a vibrant civil society. Civil society can relieve social pressures, inform government leaders about problems that are not getting sufficient attention, and provide outlets for frustrated individuals seeking to improve the quality of life for particular citizens.
But civil society must abide by basic laws and adhere to basic accountability and transparency requirements. There is a certain tension that is natural between government and civil society, but this tension can be managed and used to guarantee a more open governance arrangement and more effective solving of public problems.
Moderator: Today’s webchat is the first of several Democracy Dialogues webchats devoted to the topic of Nongovernmental Organizations.
Our next webchat in this series takes place Thursday, July 26 at 1400 GMT. Join Thomas Carothers of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace for a discussion on The Backlash Against NGOs.
Learn more about Democracy Dialogues at: http://www.democracy.gov/.
Q [cario irc]: Dear Professor Lester; GOOD MOORING.
Really I have the honor to write to you. How can we advance a global DEMOCRATIC Governance? What about the Role of International NGOs?
- Ali Eid MA IN DEVLOPMENT STUDIES
A: I think we have been witnessing the emergence of a new form of global governance through the formation of cross-border NGO networks in a wide variety of fields -- human rights, environment, children's rights, and many more. These networks are holding both governments and private corporations to account in ways that I think are generally quite positive. I do not think we need a single, formal global institution to achieve global democratic governance. We need to foster and encourage global NGO networks while also finding ways to ensure that they operate in a transparent and accountable fashion.
Q [kadidia]: Question 1 In young democratic state like Burkina Faso where political rights are not well respected, what are the chances for the civil society to be effective?
Question 2 How can work an organization of civil society in a system tainted with corruption at high level?
A: This is a very challenging question and I am not sure I have an easy answer. I would observe, however, that civil society may be the best hope of escaping from this dilemma. We have numerous examples of places where civil society provided an alternative mechanism through which to address pressing social, economic, and political problems when governments were unwilling or unable to do so.
South Africa during the apartheid period would be one example where international donors -- both public and private -- channeled aid to civil society when they refused to deal with a government that was out of favor. Similar examples are evident in Latin America in the past.
I would therefore suggest that civil society organizations in places like Burkina Faso should look outside for assistance and link up with international NGOs working in their fields.
Q [Gala]: Good morning. My question is: What do you think that are the main factors of the environment/context that a CSO must address in order to achieve policy influence?
A [Lester Salamon]: To be effective in the policy process, CSOs must fundamentally be credible. For this to be possible, they must do solid research, present evidence for their positions, and be able to make a credible case that they represent the interests of the people they purpose to speak for.
In addition to their own capabilities and skill in getting their message out, there are two other factors that ideally are needed: first, a meaningful degree of openness on the part of government so that CSOs have access to the information and decision processes of government; and second, an independent press and media willing to help CSOs communicate their message to the public and to political leaders.
Q [cario irc]: Dear Sir; What about the global citizenship? How can American International NGOs help in formalizing the global agenda and offer training for South NGOs?
- Ali Eid
A: I think we are forging a kind of global citizenship through the trans-national NGO networks I mentioned in response to a previous question. These networks frequently involve both northern and southern NGOs, and the learning is two-way. Often, the organizations involved do a fair amount of training. There are also more formal training programs. We operate an International Fellows in Philanthropy Program at Johns Hopkins, for example, that has trained and networked nonprofit leaders in some 47 countries around the world. I personally think that capacity building for civil society organizations is one of the most important activities that U.S. and other northern NGOs and governments should be supporting.
Q [marcelo viruez]: Buenos días, cree usted que las ONG´s en Bolivia, han contribuyen en la actualidad al desarrollo de acciones petitorias democráticas o por el contrario se estan destacando por su apoyo a populismos tribales no democraticos?
[Good morning. Do you think that NGO’s in Bolivia have contributed to the current development of democratic petitions and that as a result they are standing out for their support of non-democratic trivial populism?]
A: I am not familiar enough with the Bolivian situation to be able to comment directly on the role that NGOs have played there.
However, I believe that NGOs are an antidote to what you term "trivial populism." "Populism" favors a direct relationship between political leaders and "the people" and is often hostile to civil society organizations that intermediate between the leaders and the people. Civil society organizations can help protect citizens from mass politics by organizing them into groups and giving them the ability to protect basic rights and promote policies and leaders that differ from those of the authorities in power. Properly constituted and led, therefore, civil society can serve as a buffer against totalitarian impulses of mass politics.
[No conozco la situación de Bolivia, lo suficiente para poder hacer comentarios específicos respecto al papel que tienen las ONG’s ahí. Sin embargo, creo que las ONG’s son un antídoto respecto al término “populismo trivial.” Populismo se refiere precisamente a la relación entre los líderes de la política y “el pueblo” y muchas veces es hostil hacia las organizaciones civiles que medían entre los políticos y la gente. Las organizaciones de la sociedad civil pueden ayudar a proteger a los ciudadanos de la política por medio de organizarlos en grupos y por medio de darles la habilidad proteger los derechos básicos y promover las políticas y los líderes que sean distintos de las autoridades de poder. Si la sociedad civil está bien construida y dirigida puede amortiguar contra los impulsos totalitarios de la política.]
Q [marcelo viruez]: Cree usted que los Organismos No gubernamentales estan Contribuyendo o apoyando a la la Actual Asamblea Constituyente en procura de constrior un dialogo más democratico dentro de un nuevo Estado (tranformación) o apoyan politicas de reforma que como se ve ahora constribuyen a exacerbar las posiciones ultra indígenas, ultra civicas u otros similes?
[Regarding Bolivia: Do you believe that non governmental organizations are contributing or supporting the current constitutional assembly in trying to construct a dialog more democratic within the new state (in transformation) or are they supporting reform policies that appear to exacerbate the positions of ultra-indigenous, ultra-civic, or other groups?]
A: Again, I can't comment on Bolivia in particular, but my comment on the previous question probably applies to this one as well.
[De nuevo, no puedo hacer comentarios específicos respecto a Bolivia, pero es probable que mi respuesta a la pregunta anterior se aplique también a esta pregunta.]
Q [marcelo viruez]: Cual es su posición en referencia a que las ONG´s muchas veces "diseñen" propuestas de cambio en la gestión económica y Politica de los Estados, para luego "coordinar" esfuerzos con organizaciones sociales para su lobby y caildeo a nivel Estatal o en su caso se constituya un grupo o grupos de "presión" para su aprobación de sus planteamientos, en suma cúal cree usted que debe ser la relación entre la trilogía Ornanismo No Gubernamentales- Estado- Sociedad Civil?
[What is your position in reference to the NGO’s that often “design” propositions regarding the management of the economy and policy of the state, to later “coordinate” efforts with social organization for their lobby at the state level or in this case, that constitute groups that pressure the passage of their legislation. Do you believe that there should be a relationship between the trilogy of NGO’s, the state, and civil society?]
A: In general, I think that advocacy and involvement in the policy process is a crucial function of civil society organizations. I do not draw as sharp a distinction between "civil society organizations" and "NGOs" as this writer apparently does. I think that all NGOs should be concerned about public policy and should not limit themselves to a narrow service role. After all, it is often only through mobilizing government action that NGOs can really affect the problems they are hoping to solve.
[En general, creo que el apoyo y la participación en el proceso de la política es una función crucial de las organizaciones de la sociedad civil. No veo una gran distinción entre las organizaciones de la sociedad civil y las ONG’s. Creo que todas las ONG’s deberían de preocuparse por las normas respecto a la política y no deberían de restringirse a un papel de servicio limitado. Al fin y al cabo, muchas veces solamente por medio de movilizar al gobierno es cuando las ONG’s realmente pueden afectar los problemas que quieren resolver.]
Q [cario irc]: Dear Prof, citizens can safeguard their democracies; how can civic education in US help and support citizen participation?
A: I agree that effective civic education can help safeguard democracies. Such education needs to emphasize, however, the fundamental right of citizens to associate together and to petition their government. Civic education is not about saluting the flag and preaching loyalty. It is about fundamental democratic values and the practices of participation that put those values into operation.
Thanks to all of you who posted questions for a thoroughly stimulating discussion. We are in the midst of a global associational revolution around the world that is bringing civil society organizations new prominence and an enhanced role. I find this development enormously positive. But as many of your questions made clear, civil society also has responsibilities that need to be borne in mind if it is to provide the positive force we need. These involve meaningful transparency, significant mechanisms for accountability, and an openness to collaboration with other social sectors. The kind of interest reflected in this conversation gives me hope that there are emerging leaders around the world who are aware of both the promise and the challenges that civil society organizations face. It has been an honor to interact with you on these matters today.
Moderator: We wish to thank Lester Salamon for joining us today. The webchat is now closed. Please visit our USINFO Webchat Station homepage for more information on upcoming events and a transcript of today’s discussion (posted within one business day).
(Guests are chosen for their expertise. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. Department of State.)
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(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
